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 NEW EX: Stephane Lambiel to choreograph for Daisuke?

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Calliope
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PostSubject: Re: NEW EX: Stephane Lambiel to choreograph for Daisuke?   Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:08 am

Just finished watching the broadcast. The program was really good! On the first day, everyone was saying he was skating just like Lambiel and there wasn't enough "Daisuke" in it, but I didn't get that impression. There were definitely some Lambiel-like movements, but I don't think he was just copying Lambiel. At any rate, I think as he performs it more it'll get even better, and he'll be able to add his more of his own style to it.

Also, his spins seem greatly improved. Fuji broadcasted some clips of Daisuke and Lambiel practicing in Switzerland, and there was a scene where Daisuke was trying to spin really fast but fell out of it. Laughing

One complaint though: the program was way too short! Sad Less than three minutes long? It seemed like it went by in an instant!
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PostSubject: Re: NEW EX: Stephane Lambiel to choreograph for Daisuke?   Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:22 am

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PostSubject: Re: NEW EX: Stephane Lambiel to choreograph for Daisuke?   Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:18 pm

Hi:

I just saw it on you tube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYn9M927twE&playnext_from=TL&videos=OIWgfoaBD14

Very beautiful, but it is so Lambiel
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PostSubject: Re: NEW EX: Stephane Lambiel to choreograph for Daisuke?   Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:53 pm

Thank you for the links, guys! You are so quick!! Very Happy

Wonderful!! I LIKE THIS EX very much!!!!!!!!!!!!! flower flower flower
The program was born about a week ago, wasn't it? It's amazing! Shocked
Both Stephan and Dai-chan did a great job! Thank you!

Genki wrote:
Very beautiful, but it is so Lambiel
Really? Well, I expected more Stephan-like performance as a lot of people said so, but I actually didn't feel that way when I saw the broadcast. Rolling Eyes

Calliope wrote:
One complaint though: the program was way too short! Less than three minutes long? It seemed like it went by in an instant!
ITA!!! Sad Sad No
If I have to say something on this program Razz , I don't think 3A is necessarily needed if he intends to use this program just for EX. It would be nice to replace 3A to a spin or some footworks to keep the fragile and transparent atomsphere. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: NEW EX: Stephane Lambiel to choreograph for Daisuke?   Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:10 pm

I`m so disappointed. Sad
Yes, that`s exactly what I was afraid of. It` s like copy of last Stephane`s Ex number.
There is too much of Stephane & too little of Daisuke.
I suspected that Stephane is not able yet to express someone`s individuality.
And for all God`s sake -why so similar to Stephane clothes ?!!! It looks so uncharacteristic for Dai.
Sad
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PostSubject: Re: NEW EX: Stephane Lambiel to choreograph for Daisuke?   Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:22 pm

Video HD (+interview - ñan anybody translate what talks Daisuke?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gfx2bDk2Xg
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PostSubject: Re: NEW EX: Stephane Lambiel to choreograph for Daisuke?   Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:12 pm

Many thanks for linking vids, all!
You can see the translation what talks Daisuke in video for your link, ireni.

OMG!! I really like his new exhibition! His every movements are soft and smoothly. My first impression was he looks like a Stephane, but this program reminds me his "Nocturne" a lot and this is a full of lyricism and we can see more his excellent expressions we never seen before in the program. I wish I could be there!!
Thank you!! Stephane!! You gave a beautiful program to Daisuke!

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GO DAISUKE!!
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PostSubject: Re: NEW EX: Stephane Lambiel to choreograph for Daisuke?   Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:30 pm

Hi everyone, thanks for sharing links and your thoughts...

It is a beautiful program and Daisuke's performance is breathtaking. At the same time I too have a little mixed feeling that there are too much Stephane in some parts. I am not sure this is Stephane not bringing Daisuke into the program or Daisuke not making it his own completely yet. Maybe it's early in the season this will develop over time. Let's wait and hold the breath.

In any case, not too many people can skate like Stephane even though they want to so it is Daisuke's credit if his move looks like Stephane. It is amazing he picks up those moves just in a few weeks (or days?Wink ). Imagine that!

And I do agree with Leode it reminds his Noturne program years back as well. Can't wait to see his other programs for this season!
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PostSubject: Re: NEW EX: Stephane Lambiel to choreograph for Daisuke?   Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:07 pm

I don't think people should be disappointed about the program being too Lambiel-like just yet. I was worried about that as well on the first day, when all the reports were saying stuff like Daisuke was a "mini Lambiel" or that "He wasn't just skating like Lambiel, he was Lambiel." But with each performance the reviews became more positive, and people who watched multiple shows said he was really able to bring out a lot more of his own style as the weekend went on. The performance broadcasted on TV was the one from Saturday afternoon (only the second one), and from what I hear the last two performances were much better. So I'm sure when he gets even more mileage on it, it'll be amazing. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: NEW EX: Stephane Lambiel to choreograph for Daisuke?   Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:59 pm

Well well well, I know how some members are feeling.

Of course there were Stephane-like movements as he choreographed it (I think it's rather ordinary more or less.) and Stephane could skate it well if he did so.

But I don't think it would be the same as how Dai-chan skated. Imagine “ne me quitte pas” which I really really like, it had more obvious spontaneous expressiveness which I think very western. But Dai-chan's Amelie had, oh difficult to say though , calm strength or constricted strength which is rather eastern or Japanese. (I don't say which is better.)
This is what I felt when I saw the program on TV. Maybe I'm a minority who thought it was a bit similar to Luv Letter than Ne me quitte pas.

Of course I don't know what Dai-chan wants to be. If he concentrate on capturing Stephane's expression, the program will become more Stephane-like. If he wants to change it more his own, it will become more Dai-chan-like.

At any rate I love the program very much and am looking forward to seeing how it evolves.

Thank you for sharing your opinions here. It's very interesting to read various people's opinion!!
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PostSubject: Re: NEW EX: Stephane Lambiel to choreograph for Daisuke?   Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:09 am

My experience watching the new EX was quite.... Interesting. Had I not known that it was Daisuke skating I would have thought it was Lambiel (the costume and the hair doesn't help his case....) I'm not to sure I like that feeling. However, this program is still a baby, so to speak. I'm sure Daisuke will work on it more and it'll automatically become his own eventually, The stepsequence was wonderful and his jumps gorgeous. As always. I'll let Daisuke take his time with this program, I think it'll work out. As long as he drops that costume. It wasn't good-looking on Stéphane, and it doesn't suit Daisuke either. Now I'm more interested to see the SP they've made.
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PostSubject: Re: NEW EX: Stephane Lambiel to choreograph for Daisuke?   Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:15 am

miyu wrote:
Maybe I'm a minority who thought it was a bit similar to Luv Letter than Ne me quitte pas.

These are my thoughts too Very Happy
It would be strange if Lambiel has not brought anything from himself to Dajsuke’s. program. I love the program very much and it was magic skating Very Happy
...and, yes, I wait may be for some evolves Wink
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PostSubject: Re: NEW EX: Stephane Lambiel to choreograph for Daisuke?   Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:31 am

Hi Guys:

I am not disappointed, but I just feel that I see so much Lambiel in it.

It does not blow me away like the time when I saw "Bacheloret ' or "Eye" for the first time.
It made me appreciate the talent of Kenji Miyazawa yet more than before. Does anybody said," OH, it is so much like Kenji."
Even Morozof has particular moves that he repeatedly uses.

Choreographer's work is to show case the talent of the skater through innovative moves. I do not see it in this program.

I want to see more unique and interesting moves which Dai can only deliver,--- (Remeber the move in Eye that he stands on his toes with both hands raised and lowering hands with wavy motion? Or Dai skates forward and stops sharply and moves his both hands like a Magician in Bacholarret?)

Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing other programs soon!!
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PostSubject: Re: NEW EX: Stephane Lambiel to choreograph for Daisuke?   Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:08 am

I agree with Genki that for this program I didn't have that same "wow" factor that I had for Bacheloret and Eye. Well, for that part I didn't have as much "wow" on Luv letter either...even though it was a beautiful program.

I hope his short/free programs are more Daisuke's original, like Genki is saying "those moves only he can deliver".

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PostSubject: Re: NEW EX: Stephane Lambiel to choreograph for Daisuke?   Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:55 am

From the time I watched this new EX yesterday, I've been confused and asking the same question "Why?"

Why did Daisuke want to do this? Why did he choose to collaborate with Stephane? Why he doesn't look attractive nor interesting as he always did?
Why I don't feel anything "new" even though he skates with new music, new choreography, new costume?
Maybe, I will get the answer as the season goes.

But I think it's not such a big problem because this is just an EX. If he can get motivated from this collaboration, it should mean a lot to him.

And I totally agree with Genki about choreographer's work, and about Kenji Miyamoto.
I hope Daisuke's SP with Staphane / Shae-Lynn and LP with Pasquale will be more Daisuke's original like Miki said.
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PostSubject: Re: NEW EX: Stephane Lambiel to choreograph for Daisuke?   Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:52 pm

100627 Daisuke Takahashi,Stephane Lambiel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj80CogL0s0

Wow, so I'm one of the minorities here, who are completely happy with his new EX! Shocked Shocked

panther wrote:
These are my thoughts too
It would be strange if Lambiel has not brought anything from himself to Dajsuke’s. program. I love the program very much and it was magic skating
It seems you and I have a similar taste! Yeah, it was a magic to me, too. Wink



I think you don't need to worry much, Genki, Miki and Yshion (Glad to see you here again, Yshion!!! Very Happy ). I have a hunch that Shae-Lynn's SP would be what you desire to see. Wink

And I'm very sorry to say this..... Neutral But Genki, you are a bit mean to Stephane...... Sad

Of course Stephane is a novice as a choreoprapher, but I'm really really appreciate him to pour his unique artistry into Dai-chan. Very Happy It would be a difficult thing to do between equally talented skaters who live in the same time.

Just IMO, Stephane is already an "artist", while Dai-chan is a skater who is going/wants to be a real artist. (Possibly he can be a one who has great diversity.) I think that's why Dai-chan want to work with Stephane.
I'm looking forward to seeing how Dai-chan interprets Stephane's artistry in the coming months.

BTW, this program was a sensation for me and would show you Stephane is a true artist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fhPPP4ofLM


Please don't take it wrong! My all-time-number-one-favorite skater is Dai-chan!!! cheers cheers
And I'm so greedy that I want to see both of Shae-Lynn's and Stephane's!!! Cool
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PostSubject: Re: NEW EX: Stephane Lambiel to choreograph for Daisuke?   Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:46 pm

miyu wrote:

Wow, so I'm one of the minorities here, who are completely happy with his new EX! Shocked Shocked

No Miyu we are two, I completely agree with you!!! Very Happy

I'm watching the program again and again from yesterday....and every time i'm hypnotize from him!!
I love the music, i love the simple costume and i love the entire program, especially the final part.

I see that it's a Stephane program but i see a lot of Daisuke in it...I think that with time he personalize it (we have to think that they create it only one week ago!!!)
To conclude...I'm satisfy of it and i'm curious to see the SP too cheers

P.S: Sorry for my bad english, I hope to be explains me to the best Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: NEW EX: Stephane Lambiel to choreograph for Daisuke?   Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:12 pm

miyu wrote:
this program was a sensation for me and would show you Stephane is a true artist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fhPPP4ofLM

I remember I forgot that people have to breathe, when watching this program Shocked

Well, I want to say, that the choice of music is excellent, step sequence so light and virtuoso (only Daisuke must do so) and rotation is very beautiful. All these elements he did before. Wink
By the way, I've heard discussion of one recording of Luv Letter, but the movie was made by other music. And then everyone said that it did Stephan. Rolling Eyes
And one more... Daisuke develops in terms of choreography, working with Stephan and it's a very good experience, I thing. Smile
But I'm also waiting for another programs with Shae-Linn Burn and P.Camerlengo. Daisuke is a figure skater, who may be different on ice. And I want to see him skating in various styles. flower


Last edited by panther on Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:33 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: NEW EX: Stephane Lambiel to choreograph for Daisuke?   Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:30 pm

I'm absolutely agree with Genki, Miki and Yshion.
I have so mixed feelings. The program is beautiful and Daisuke did an amazing performance, he is flying on the ice and I like the music so much (it's more expressive than Comptine D' un Autre Ete, IMO). But there is too much Lambiel. Daisuke said he wants to try something new, but there is nothing new in this program. It looks like a copy of Stephane's last exhebition program. Even the step sequence look like Lambiel's. Sad
Stephane is a great skater and artist, but he is not a choreographer yet.
I'm agree with Genki and Yshion about Kenji Miyamoto's programs. They are all so different and each of them has it's unique moves and steps.

I really hope his SP will be more origianl and unique and will be in Daisuke's style. Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: NEW EX: Stephane Lambiel to choreograph for Daisuke?   Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:23 pm

Oh, it's very interesting!! Cool Please let me hear your opinions more! Very Happy

I re-read my previous post and wondered why I posted the link of Stephane's performance and wrote "Stephane is a true artist". Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
You guys already know well about it!!! Cool I'm sorry... tongue
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PostSubject: Re: NEW EX: Stephane Lambiel to choreograph for Daisuke?   Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:48 pm

I watched the program, and I like it. Cool I think Dai still has to work on it and really grow into it, make it his own, but it has a lot of potential (my all-time favorite exhibition from Dai is Nocturne, and in my opinion Amélie fits into the same "category").

Of course the program has Stéphane's signature all over it, but I think it's normal. Every program has the signature of its choreographer. The problem here, I think, is that everybody can see Stéphane skate because we've all seen him often and recently. Who has ever seen Kenji or Pasquale skate? Maybe the programs they do for Dai are "totally Kenji" or "totally Pasquale", but we can't say because we don't know how they skate.

Honestly, I think what makes Dai's skating so special is the way he skates, the way he moves, so smoothly, with such soft knees, the big beautiful jumps, the use of his whole body, the passion in his eyes, etc. And not so much the choreography itself, because he can skate anything and still make it his own - hip hop (Swan Lake), classical (Rachmaninov LP and Tchaikovsky SP), tango (Roxanne and Eye), "comedy" (La Strada) or contemporary (Bachelorette), just to name a few different styles he's done.

I'm curious to see what this program will look like when Dai will really "feel it" and go beyond what Stéphane choreographed.
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PostSubject: Re: NEW EX: Stephane Lambiel to choreograph for Daisuke?   Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:22 pm

I think this is the only chance for me to win the second consecutive World Championship title. I really want to stick it out to the end.
OMG. Did he really think so? Crying or Very sad
And you, guys, do you agree with that? Finally, it`s time for Dai to get more confident. He deserves much more.
About new Ex.
After replaying and watching it many time I`ve changed my mind. Now I think it`s the most beautifull Ex programm of Dai.
Passion, fatality, sadness so deep programm, each time I see something new.
He flies, like dance of the moth flying to a flame. Magical & mesmerizing. My fav. Ex was his Luv letter at JNats, but now I can`t compare it.
It`s new vision of Dai. No more cute boy anymore, only mature man.
But still I am confused with low neck. It`s beautifull, but it`s not in Japanese style. Razz And if he throw out some Stephan like facial expressions, it`ll improve the ex.
I like that even he does not open his heart in this ex, everyone can relate his feelings. And why does someone write in comments, that`s too bad "because we miss Stephane". They cannot be identical. After all it is the East and West culture!
Miyu, did you think that Dai is not an artist? Crying or Very sad
For me Dai & Stephane are both great artists. After all Stephan is only lyrical. Could he skate Hip hip Swan or Bachelorette? Never. Stephane for classic culture and Day for every music.
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PostSubject: Re: NEW EX: Stephane Lambiel to choreograph for Daisuke?   Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:43 pm

MissC, yes, I think you are right and your post explains everything clearly.

Otherwise, I don't know why... my head says "Yes", but something in my heart tries to force me to say "No". Watching him skating this program makes me feel very...uncomfortable, I'm not even sure this word "uncomfortable" is appropriate.

For example, I've watched 5 (If I include Jeremy Abbott, 6) programs of Pasquale coreographed for single skaters. 4 of Nanri's and 1 of Daisuke. And I thought they were all different and each had its own character and moves. No same action or movement he often uses.
For Kenji, I've seen more than 20 (30?) programs he choreographed for different Japanese skaters including EX and competition programs in 2 years. I found they all had different characteristic movements and individual mood suitable for each skaters. I never thought "Oh it's Kenji's style (movement)". That's why I named Kenji as an ideal choreographer. And the same thing can be said for Shae-Lynn (She still often skates in public, besides!).

This was the first time I watched the program Stephane choreogrphed for someone else, so I think it was just shocking to me because the program had too much symbolic movements of Stephane Lambiel that we all know.
Not only Daisuke has to improve his performance, but also Stephane has to improve himself as a choreographer, IMHO.

I think I will get used to it while watching Daisuke skating his program, and I believe Daisuke will make it his own as you said. Smile



ETA: Lil, I agree with you saying both Daisuke and Stephane are artist. But I think Stephane can skate to variety kinds of music, not only classical type.


Last edited by Yshion on Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:08 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: NEW EX: Stephane Lambiel to choreograph for Daisuke?   Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:37 am

i agree with you too,Miyu! i don"t know why are you guys so disappointed! last time i checked figure skating was about art and acting and being able to play a character and tell a story,express emotions in many different ways! in my language,romanian,the translation of "figure skating" has the word "art" in it! have you seen Dai's hands while he's spinning? it's like they're talking...they're showing emotion,he's more artistic..that was all about collaborating with Stephane..he learned to show more emotion in his skating! i don't think Dai feels so good after everybody was saying that he WAS Stephane! i think Dai should be the disappointed one! i love the program! peace1
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PostSubject: Re: NEW EX: Stephane Lambiel to choreograph for Daisuke?   Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:26 am

Hi I am a newbie and I want to thank all of you for this wonderful site for an extraordinary skater...to quote Pascale "he is one of a kind."

I just finished watching this new EX program and Luv Letter. Except for the overall mood of the music I think that is where the similarity ends. In Luv Letter Daisuke began by looking into the palms of his hands which brought forth a recollection of a moment in time from the past. Daisuke was pensive and tranquill and that moment in time was very special and continues to be cherished. He ends the piece looking up into the heavens.

In this new piece Daisuke looks beyond his raises hands with the palms facing outwards -- like a wall which separates the person which is presented to the outside world from the deep feelings hidden within. Then he pushes himself away from the wall...The movements in his upper body especially during the step squences exuded such powerful feelings of fear, frustration, yearning for a release, etc. They are feelings of the moment and expressed just the way he released the different emotions in La Strada with tremendous intensity and abandon. He ends this piece folded up into a ball on the ice.

Considering Daisuke had this piece for only a week. I do believe he will mold it into his own unique presence. I also think and I hope I'm right, that the costume will also evolve as the piece grows on him. Daisuke is a perfectionist and every detail -- technique, artistry, music, costume, and even the hair must come together as one. Like a great wine it needs time to mature.

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